WASHINGTON — California Gov. Gavin Newsom hosted popular Jewish conservative commentator Ben Shapiro on his own podcast, “This Is Gavin Newsom,” in an episode that aired Thursday night, putting the Democratic governor at the center of a wide-ranging national debate over immigration, law enforcement and political rhetoric.

The episode marked one of Newsom’s most prominent conversations with a conservative figure and drew attention for his response to criticism of statements made by members of his own team about U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Pressed by Shapiro, Newsom said he does not view ICE agents as “terrorists” and does not support abolishing the agency, tempering earlier rhetoric that had sparked backlash.

Newsom reaffirmed his support for immigration reform and California’s sanctuary policies but said heated language about law enforcement can undercut productive dialogue.

The appearance continues a pattern of the governor engaging ideological opponents on long-form platforms. He has previously hosted former Trump strategist Steve Bannon and Turning Point USA founder Charlie Kirk, as Newsom seeks to broaden his reach beyond traditional Democratic audiences.

Political observers say the outreach comes as speculation grows about Newsom’s national ambitions after the 2026 midterms. The governor has acknowledged in past interviews that he has considered a future presidential run.

Other Democrats often mentioned as potential 2028 contenders include former Vice President Kamala Harris, former Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro and New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Newsom’s conversation with Shapiro underscores the expanding role of podcasts in political life, as leaders increasingly turn to long-form interviews to engage new audiences — and face tougher scrutiny outside friendly venues.